Tuesday, November 18, 2008

This Guy Has a Great Point

Whenever the law makers want to quash your rights, they use the "It's best for you" approach and play on fears about safety.
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:46 AM
Subject: Re: dog_anti-rescue_anti-peta_new Fw: [petlaw] Responsible Breeding???

I was just thinking/obsessing about all this and it occurred to me that "safety" is the excuse that is always given for the most oppressive, damaging, and even murderous laws and institutions that humans have ever invented.  Seeking some kind of safety will inspire a mother to murder her entire family, even for her own good, if she sees danger in continuing to live.



__._,_.___
Mandatory spay and neuter means pets must grow old and die without replacements. No more babies, no more pets in our homes.  Stop it before it's nationwide. Sterile animals cannot replenish themselves. It's the "facts" of life.
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Monday, November 10, 2008

Fw: dog_anti-rescue_anti-peta_new article (long reply)

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: dog_anti-rescue_anti-peta_new article (long reply)


The first time I wrote "long reply" I actually trimmed the reply to something reasonable and then forgot to change the subject line back.  It looks like this will be the long reply.  

Animal welfare people want their royal asses kissed and they  will thoroughly destroy whoever refuses to pucker up if they can.  This is the absolute worse way to take care of animal welfare or human problems.  The poisonings, the deliberate release of animals, and sometimes even shootings help this program along.  It always grinds on my nerves to know that I am dealing with people who are in a position where I look bad if I criticize them openly because people are so used to this garbage.

What you said about sucking the joy out of things, Indy.  I have a free episode of "Life is Wild" on my hard drive, the pilot episode.  The previews show a girl stroking a purring cheetah.  If I actually watch that episode I might throw the monitor across the room before I finish watching it because of what "they" have done to me.  I can't even watch enough of it to get their propaganda for sure, except that the previews also showed them forcing their pet to live in the wild, which they would call "abandonment" if an ordinary human did the same thing.

They think of their sociopathy as a virtue.    In some way or another I realized this about the church I used to attend.  There is always too much about crushing someone out of existence, removing things that God doesn't like to look at, and dealing harshly with those who display human sympathy towards those were destroyed in God's name.  That is a manifestation of the negative morality that I talk about. 

It's a contagious illness.  Recently I've heard too much about how tigers will bond with some humans and will simply kill strangers, a dire warning that is maybe meant for the safety of anyone who would approach but has only a grain of truth.  Tigers might be taught, by absorbing the attitudes of their owners, to kill strange humans or act threatening, but I don't think that's what they mean either.  They want to be able to sell hands-off association, giving the minimum amount of "goods" for the money that they hope that they can guilt out of people.  I don't think that anyone in the business is immune to that.  They also want to receive the minimum amount of hassle from the authorities, and some have given up their USDA licenses on that and other principles that involve common decency.

Right now on another group I think some of the people want to push me out because I don't believe in the latest bad attitude.  So and so is right because he's an expert and he's been in the biz for 25 years and he's for ownership rights, ad hurleum, so I should sit down and drink a can of STFU and never think that I can trust or pet animals which I really have never met although I have spent a little time with them through the cage actually touching and getting to know them.  I'm bemused at this because the same self-styled experts are being displaced by college boys and girls who have an animal rights agenda and book learning that says "keep your mitts off."  The biz largely consists of people who either don't have the strength to hold their ground or if they have the strength they don't understand the idea of holding their ground.  Then the ones who I consider "good" and "bad" bicker with each other and if one faction isn't baiting the other faction, they're taking the bait.

We don't know how to stop when we don't know when we're doing it.  Deception comes in from all angles and confuses issues, which is why I wrote up a set of principles that I thought applied to the situation, because deception works because people don't have principles written down to cover animal ownership.  A charismatic sociopath can have people killing off their own pets, cutting off their own gonads let along the gonads on their animals, reducing and spending themselves down to nothing to gain a small amount of enlightenment that wouldn't do them nearly as much good as doing their own research and thinking for themselves.  The person who holds a tiger cub in her arms learns more than everything that a Carol Baskin has to teach.



--- On Sun, 11/9/08, Indy <sarah3@gamebox.net> wrote:

You are both absolutely right, Thomas and Wakanska.
 
It's frightening, really, that people everywhere are getting so manipulated and controlled, by others who do not have their interests or even the interests of the animals for that matter, at heart. The people being manipulated by these agendas don't even realize it for the most part.
 
The media is a big help with the wrong agendas, they never report about a private citizen and a pet tiger or other exotic animal, or even their certain large dog breed getting along, with the animal never attacking anyone.
 
But as soon as they can latch onto a one in a thousand sad tale about some large animal in the private sector mauling someone or their pets, it gets splashed all over every front page and TV screen. And the message they try to present is "Don't get a tiger! Don't get a pitbull! They are dangerous, they are wild, and they WILL attack you!"
 
The animal welfare operations, the "sanctuaries" get to keep all sorts of animals, and get on TV, ranting about how every animal in their care was neglected or abused before arriving there, and how each animal is so much better off in the sanctuary, and what a terrible shame it couldn't have been born in the wild, blah, blah, blah.
 
Making the ownership of any animal, criminalizes people simply for owning something, and that is wrong on so many levels.
 
If people are found keeping an animal illegally, even if they and that animal have a wonderful bond, and the animal is thriving, that doesn't matter to the animal welfare people or those who inforce the corrupt law that makes you a criminal for owning an animal on the banned list.
 
Animals have been taken from loving homes where there was no abuse or neglect, and no instances of animal attacks, and placed into sanctuaries where they do anything but thrive, spending the rest of their lives away from their owners, around strange people and animals, getting minimal contact and love.
 
I have a big problem with celebrities who own or get to be around some exotic animals just because they are famous. Especially if they tell everybody else not to own whatever animal they like. This has pretty much sucked any joy out of family movies that use exotic animals as a main part of some character's life on any movie or show.
 
Animal welfare people who sell animals will only sell to certain people, screen the heck out of them, and sell only if every condition is promised to be met by the new owner. They are also more than likely to call it "adoption" and talk about their "rescueing" as well as be breeders of whatever animals. And this even makes it very hard to find someone to buy from these days.

__._,_.___
Mandatory spay and neuter means pets must grow old and die without replacements. No more babies, no more pets in our homes.  Stop it before it's nationwide. Sterile animals cannot replenish themselves. It's the "facts" of life.
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    More on the subject

     
    ----- Original Message -----
    Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 4:07 PM
    Subject: Re: dog_anti-rescue_anti-peta_new article (long reply)

    Disaffected youth are great cannon fodder for fascist social movements.  It was college students who took over Iran from a relatively moderate government under the Shah and turned it into a horrible theocracy.  They sure as anything got the government that they deserved.  It's a punishment in itself.

    These disaffected youth have become city council members and law enforcement officers.  It takes a lot of doing to get them to see why people have been doing some things for thousands of years, like actually planting food and putting it up for the winter. 

    Hostility isn't going to work against them.  I think that the successful counter to this will walk the fine line between giving the animal rights people undeserved credibility and speaking to them in a language that they will understand.

    --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Wakanska <wakanska2003@yahoo.com> wrote:


    Well, there's a saying in the stock market, that pigs get fattened and hogs get slaughtered, which is another way of saying that all things are cyclical, with ups and downs, and if you don't know when to get out, you will end up getting creamed.
    Of course, the really devoted people cannot simply jump in and out of the game, whether dogs, exotics, or whatever. Their devotions are more permanent than the normal cycles of growth and decline in anything.
    What I am referring to, here.. Not an exactly precise analogy, but close enough.. All through the last thirty years or so, I have seen knowledge of animals and animal husbandry, training, etc. simply blossom to what I would almost call a "Golden Age" and a pinnacle of achievement, and now it seems that all of that is being dismantled before my eyes, replaced with a pseudo- culture based on false science and ethics. The young people, especially females, are jumping into it and taking over in a very hostile manner, to the point where elder folks who have devoted their entire lives to animals are being targeted, harassed, and ripped-off via raids and other forms of "activism".
    It's a sad time for many of us.
    And, we are learning fast to mistrust the authorities and government, because we have been so often treated far more harshly than drug dealers, prostitutes, white collar criminals, etc.

    __._,_.___
    Mandatory spay and neuter means pets must grow old and die without replacements. No more babies, no more pets in our homes.  Stop it before it's nationwide. Sterile animals cannot replenish themselves. It's the "facts" of life.
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      Great Posts (article (long reply)

      Exactly!
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Wakanska
      Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 1:40 PM
      Subject: Re: dog_anti-rescue_anti-peta_new article (long reply)

      Right on, Indy!!!!
      Yes, and I have ceased to enjoy animal movies, etc. as well.
      It's an agenda of selfishness.. me, me, ME!!!! Look at ME!!!
      Another example of people not coming to terms with their own existence, I think. They need some way to promote themselves and to feel important and needed. I suppose I suffered from that to some extent, myself. I also had some small degree of rescue fantasy / obsession, i.e. "saving my breed", and "giving back to society". It's the same very common urge to have meaning and relevancy in one's life, to be approved and seen by others as a "good person" which makes the non-profits and the philanthropy industry such a successful racket. By the way, Jesus said that none of us are "good", that we are all sinners, and that HE came to save US.. So, think about that one for awhile. Perhaps it is our futile efforts to create a "good society" and to win approval from society, which can just as often lead us into dangerously destructive paths.
      Jesus also told us that when we did something good or charitable, that we should do it as secretly as possible, never seeking reward or recognition. Well, you don't see much of that from the rescue types. They tend to be boastful.

      --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Indy <sarah3@gamebox.net> wrote:
      From: Indy <sarah3@gamebox.net>
      Subject: Re: dog_anti-rescue_anti-peta_new article (long reply)
      To: dog_anti-rescue_anti-peta_new@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 11:41 AM

      You are both absolutely right, Thomas and Wakanska.
       
      It's frightening, really, that people everywhere are getting so manipulated and controlled, by others who do not have their interests or even the interests of the animals for that matter, at heart. The people being manipulated by these agendas don't even realize it for the most part.
       
      The media is a big help with the wrong agendas, they never report about a private citizen and a pet tiger or other exotic animal, or even their certain large dog breed getting along, with the animal never attacking anyone.
       
      But as soon as they can latch onto a one in a thousand sad tale about some large animal in the private sector mauling someone or their pets, it gets splashed all over every front page and TV screen. And the message they try to present is "Don't get a tiger! Don't get a pitbull! They are dangerous, they are wild, and they WILL attack you!"
       
      The animal welfare operations, the "sanctuaries" get to keep all sorts of animals, and get on TV, ranting about how every animal in their care was neglected or abused before arriving there, and how each animal is so much better off in the sanctuary, and what a terrible shame it couldn't have been born in the wild, blah, blah, blah.
       
      Making the ownership of any animal, criminalizes people simply for owning something, and that is wrong on so many levels.
       
      If people are found keeping an animal illegally, even if they and that animal have a wonderful bond, and the animal is thriving, that doesn't matter to the animal welfare people or those who inforce the corrupt law that makes you a criminal for owning an animal on the banned list.
       
      Animals have been taken from loving homes where there was no abuse or neglect, and no instances of animal attacks, and placed into sanctuaries where they do anything but thrive, spending the rest of their lives away from their owners, around strange people and animals, getting minimal contact and love.
       
      I have a big problem with celebrities who own or get to be around some exotic animals just because they are famous. Especially if they tell everybody else not to own whatever animal they like. This has pretty much sucked any joy out of family movies that use exotic animals as a main part of some character's life on any movie or show.
       
      Animal welfare people who sell animals will only sell to certain people, screen the heck out of them, and sell only if every condition is promised to be met by the new owner. They are also more than likely to call it "adoption" and talk about their "rescueing" as well as be breeders of whatever animals. And this even makes it very hard to find someone to buy from these days.

      __._,_.___
      Mandatory spay and neuter means pets must grow old and die without replacements. No more babies, no more pets in our homes.  Stop it before it's nationwide. Sterile animals cannot replenish themselves. It's the "facts" of life.
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